When does politeness become dishonesty?
I was talking about this with a friend the other day. We both incline naturally towards dissembling. Towards softening tough words so much they become meaningless. Even towards taking upon ourselves the blame in certain situations to make the other person feel better.
In fact the late and very great Mr Quentin Crisp positively encourages this latter tactic. In Manners From Heaven (his unique take on etiquette), he has this to say:
In refusing a sexual invitation, one should never take the high road of self-righteousness. Manners demand that we appear to be less than others. ‘I may be very old-fashioned…’ is always a good line to use. One practically apologises for having to say ‘no’.
The wheels of society are greased by politeness. If we all said what we really thought all the time, it would certainly be satisfying and fun in many ways, but it would end in tears.
Politeness and friendship
So how do we reconcile good manners with friendship, truth and real closeness? For example:
You have a friend who’s gone and married a man so dire you would rather clean the toilet bowl with your own toothbrush than spend five minutes in his company. An obvious tactic is to invite your friend to meet up à deux. But sooner or later will come the inevitable invitation to a jolly supper party at their house, and there are only so many excuses to avoid this sort of thing. So you go, and grit your teeth. But now there’s a wall of dishonesty between you and your friend. And your own view of your friend has changed subtly anyway: you think less of her for her slavish devotion to this fool.*
I don’t know if there’s a constructive and honest way through this sort of situation.
At what point are compassion and kindness actually dishonest?
Politeness and Christianity
I think we’ve become a society in which there’s a lot of papering over the cracks in the interests of politeness and a sort of hippy-happy, sunny-bunny Christianity. A lot of ’supposed-to’. We are supposed to be ‘grateful’ and ‘thankful’ all the time. And indeed it seems like the height of impoliteness not to be.
At the moment I’m going through my annual phase of being severely pissed off with everything, because it’s summer and it’s hot, and I’m one of those strange people that loathe hot weather. But shouldn’t I be grateful for this wonderful creation I’m part of? There are people out there with terrible problems, and I don’t have any real problems. Doesn’t stop me being pissed off though, and even hugging the feeling to me, because it’s very energising.
Politeness and blogging
Like so many people, women especially, I was brought up in an atmosphere which encouraged a kind of toxic niceness. Neither the church nor the school at which I was educated would stand for any honest questioning or subversive behaviour.
I tend to post here only when I have something positive to say, and I’m coming to realise that’s actually a form of selective dishonesty. And it can make writing here boring (for me and probably for you!).
I’m going to see where this line of thinking takes me over the next few weeks. Perhaps you’ll start to see glimpses of the judgemental, irritable, critical, contemptuous, and self-involved sides of me. Enjoy!
Meanwhile, what do you think – at what point does politeness become active dishonesty?
*Not a current situation
Image by allaboutgeorge
Elsewhere:
One of many excellent articles marking the 40th anniversary of the Stonewall Riots is in Religion Dispatches, which I found via Towanda. Rachel writes both compassionately and passionately as part of a synchroblog, here. And Ian McKellen, writing in The Times, reminds us of some of our own queer political history here in the UK.
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towanda 06.27.09 at 7:48 pm
re: politeness and christianity — the idea that christians are supposed to be “polite” (because, you know Jesus was so “polite,” and Paul, and the prophets…Please!) has led to our paralyzation in the face of great injustice, whether it’s local churches devouring their pastors or entire denominations being silent (or if not silent, “polite”) in the face of oppression.
And “politeness” keeps the church complicit, “we’re good, polite people, we couldn’t possibly be racist/sexist/whatever,” the ecclesial equivalent of not telling your friend she’s married an ass.
Well there, I think I’ve covered all three of your categories!
Tess 06.27.09 at 8:10 pm
towanda: what’s the emoticon symbol for cheering, I wonder! You are absolutely right.
kigen 06.27.09 at 9:20 pm
I say do it. Let it all hang out here, Tess!
There is a scene early on in AS TIME GOES BY, when middle-aged Geoffrey Palmer tells the middle-aged Judy Dench that she “is not as young as she used to be.” Dench’s retort is, “Well you’re not exactly Peter Pan yourself.” That’s the moment I think when he really falls for her — total surrender. Sometimes, badinage is a form of love, and of compassion too? ~ kigen
kigen 06.27.09 at 9:30 pm
Sorry, mispelled Judi Dench!
(wish we could edit our posts!)
Shyloh 06.27.09 at 10:06 pm
I’ve been lurking for a little while here and enjoy the blog much.
I guess I have a different take on politeness. To me politeness doesn’t mean not standing up for myself. I don’t think assertiveness and politeness are polar opposites. For example, I think its perfectly polite to say to someone who makes an inappropriate advance,-”I find your advances offensive and I want you to stay away from me.” I was honest, I was direct and I didn’t call him any names or other insults that would probably flash through my mind. I think traditionally the word polite has been used as a camouflage for the word “fear”. This traditional politeness is a cover for fear by those practicing the politeness and a cover for needing oppressive control by those who demand that politeness. And I also think about those situations when the truth might hurt someone (serious situations, not whether or not we like someone’s new dress). I don’t think one answer covers all situations, but for the most part I think it is exceedingly more loving to tell someone the truth than not. Whether its because i am noticing my friend is drinking too much lately or because another friend offended me in some way, I have to ask myself am I being “nice” to protect them or am i afraid of the reaction I would get? Of course, like I said before, each situation has to be weighed individually – there are times when its in everyone’s best interest to just not go there. I guess for me I just have to ask myself if my “nice” is fear-based or truly based in what I think is the right thing to do.
Tess 06.27.09 at 10:25 pm
@kigen: I love that quote from As Time Goes By (however Miss Dench is spelled). I can just hear her voice saying it. My parents had that kind of badinage in their marriage – it was great to watch.
@Shyloh: I’m so very glad you “delurked” to leave this lovely, thoughtful comment. I really like what you say about politeness covering fear AND the need for control (which are so often combined). Yes, we have to ask ourselves always what “nice” is based on. One of the problems I have is that “nice” comes out automatically before I have a chance to ask the question. I need to practice!!
Roxanne Galpin 06.28.09 at 4:43 am
if being polite means i hafta lie, then … well, i think i will not lie. personally, i think if one is lying … then one is not being polite … there’s a way to express one’s honest feelings or thoughts on the situation without entirely insulting a person …
i would not want to sanitise the truth for my friend … i would no want to hurt her feelings … but i would owe her the truth … diplomatically, of course.
Blisschick 06.28.09 at 4:07 pm
Tess, First, I am very excited to see what will happen to your writing with this new energy and this new erasing of boundaries when it comes to topics. Very excited, indeed.
Second, you are not alone. I LOATHE the hot weather, too. It is a time of year when Marcy insists I take naps or I get very, very cranky. My energy is lower, my creative powers are diminished, even my digestion is messed up. LOATHE it.
Third, we are having the same exact issue with a friend who has a new beau who is, frankly, a dumb ass.
BUT…he’s not mean to her or destructive in any way. She is really happy. God knows why, and thankfully she will never ask me what I think of him.
Yet it gets awkward — she’ll want us to do things and I have very little desire to ever be around him again.
In this country, I often wish people would try to be MORE POLITE. Everyone thinks they are always in their own homes, for example, with their use of cell phones and the way they think pajamas are okay attire for public spaces. Everyone thinks I need to hear all of their opinions about everything all the time.
Between true friends, on the other hand, there should never be worries of “politeness” — only of kindness and honesty.
crayons 06.28.09 at 10:31 pm
Hi Tess,
This is very good piece of writing, developed in meaning by the thoughtful comments that readers added. I understand your heat-induced frustration. Being real is sometimes refreshing.
Bliss Chick’s response resonate closely with me. I like to use the word courtesy instead of politeness. Somehow it seems like a broader, more universal concept.
My husband, who is from Turkey, is infinitely courteous, even in the face of extreme rudeness or hatefulness. I think the Dalai Lama is courteous, and that’s why he is such a strong figure. I admire their actions and I wish to emulate them. However, I am often rude, especially when stressed or hot and sweaty.
Sunrise Sister 06.29.09 at 3:16 am
Well I’m not too frightened at the possibility of seeing “another” side of Tess here at Anchors……..although, I will try to be politely honest if you’re just more than I can stand! I have erred on the side of honesty probably more times than the average bear and I don’t really regret that trait. I’m afraid that my “cover up” of silence is often seen through as well because when my mind is saying “be polite, don’t utter a word,” my face is usually reflecting – “are you crazy out of your mind? ” I do favor honesty delivered in as polite a way as possible but not sugar-coating so syrupy that it dilutes the subject.
Tess 06.29.09 at 9:47 am
@Roxanne: ‘if one is lying then one is not being polite’, yes that’s exactly my feeling, it’s finding that balance of tact and kindness in this sort of situation.
@Blisschick: Thank you, and I like that you use the word cranky of our mutual loathing, it’s a good description with a slightly menacing edge! I am with you all the way on cell phones. We have designated quiet carriages on some British trains where you’re not supposed to use cells or personal stereos, but it doesn’t stop people!
@crayons: I’m so glad you added this comment because I think you’ve really hit on an important nuance in introducing the word courtesy. It seems to have more kindness and humanity in it than the word politeness which resonates to me with deceit. And of course Christ told us to turn the other cheek. I, too, greatly admire the Dalai Lama’s strength.
@Sunrise: I’m with you on the facial expressions. I generally have to look down if I’m doing the silence cover up. I could never play poker! And I have this habit of saying “Hmm, that’s interesting” when what I really mean is “You’ve gotta be kidding me!”.
Ellen 06.29.09 at 3:13 pm
Hi Tess,
I vote for honesty above ‘politeness’. Politeness can often be another word for ‘I don’t give a shit’ IMO. For instance, with a panhandler, we politely pretend not to see them. Your ‘friend’ example struck a chord with me – I have a friend who hoards, to the extent that she cannot move around in her small apartment. If I say anything about that directly, she becomes extremely angry. But if I never say anything, say when she is about to acquire yet another piece of ‘artistic’ junk, I am not doing her any favours either. So I compromise – I say something like ‘Are you sure you have space for that?’ or something similar, then let it go. I think it comes down to mixing compassion with honesty – somehow not ignoring, but having compassion also for the other person. I prefer thinking of compassion for others as opposed to a stifling ‘politeness’.
Thought provoking post! Ellen
Suzie the Foodie 06.29.09 at 3:59 pm
Fascinating! I was feeling so bad about feeling so bad I left the blogging world for a bit because I could no longer lie about how crummy my reality is. I think as long as we’re trying to improve our lives (even if it means waiting for escape, I like I am) then it’s OK but when we get obsessed with the negative, we can get caught in a black cycle. Still, I would rather be honest than pretend to be happy.
I’m glad my post on pitta energy and AR was helpful! It is a horrible illness isn’t it? So I am not the only one who has noticed it’s worse in the summer, how fascinating. Thanks for letting me know. OK, back to my cyber cave, LOL.
Tess 06.29.09 at 7:47 pm
@Ellen: welcome to the blog and thanks for your comment. What you said about panhandlers is absolutely right. I don’t give to them, or only exceptionally, but I always try to look them in the eye. (I suppose they’d prefer the cash!) And wry smiling going on here – I’m in the process of curing my own hoarding tendencies…
@Suzie: I guess it depends partly on our reasons for blogging, but actually I think it can be reassuring that everyone doesn’t live the perfect life. On a head level, of course we know it, but part of the problem with times when our reality is crummy is that we feel so isolated. And as you know, I applaud the reasons behind your gorgeous Foodie blog.
kigen 06.30.09 at 12:44 pm
I just want to add another comment, maybe even a — Warning: FLAME — on blogs themselves. The worst thing about them is self-analysis, self-promotion and extensions from that, the supposed self-help for others. It makes sense of course, the self is free for the writer to plunder, constant daily content readily available, free of copyright. it is supposed that all anybody wants to read about is SELF-HELP, and so to draw in the reader there is all this advice for YOU to care about YOU, to advance YOU, on and on. Isn’t there some other topic bloggers would like to talk about!! And even when they address something outside themselves, they do very little research on the topic, it’s about their trip to the event, or their feelings about what someone wrote, or what THEY didn’t like about this, that, and another. How about some good journalism, real reporting, with no reference whatsoever to the author’s personal involvement in that topic? The age level of blogging is teeny-oriented it seems by its very nature. Can that be changed or not?
Ellen 06.30.09 at 4:20 pm
RE: panhandlers – I live in a large city so this is an issue I struggle with. When I worked downtown, I’d run the gamut of panhandlers daily. I don’t wish to give all the time. Yet to ignore seems inhuman…Looking at the person seems a good step, though apparently, the more practiced ones do not look at passers–by as that is seen as threatening, and they get less change. I heard a hostel worker on the radio once that said – say hello to the person. Acknowledge that they exist – that can be more precious to them than your quarter. I am shy, so greeting strangers is a struggle for me, but I am considering trying this. Politeness in action I guess. Cheers
Tess 06.30.09 at 5:46 pm
@kigen: I started typing a really long response to your interesting comments and questions. So long that it’s turning into a blog post, so keep an eye open for it in the next few days.
@Ellen: Interesting comment on not looking up, I hadn’t thought of that. I wonder if there are cultural differences on this as well. A long time ago, I had a ‘nodding and speaking’ relationship with a young guy who pretty much lived at the station I used every day. In two years I never gave him a penny, but we always used to say good morning to each other and sometimes exchange a few words. One day he just disappeared and I’ve often wondered what happened to him.
molly 06.30.09 at 8:45 pm
I’ve worked with this one alot in the past year. And I think if in anyway you stifle your truth by being polite, then it may be better to be honest, in a more direct way…
Kel 07.01.09 at 8:39 am
well I’m lining up here to read Tess unplugged
)
you go girl
it’s your blog and you can post whatever you want here
it’s been said that politeness is the most acceptable hypocrisy
of course, politeness is often called the lubricant of social etiquette
living somewhere in the middle of those two is perhaps the key
Sue 07.01.09 at 12:26 pm
Fuck yes. We are too fucking polite
Okay, now I’m actually going back to read your post
Sue 07.01.09 at 1:17 pm
Wow, great comments. I love the teasing out the threads of courtesy and honesty. I guess the word politeness to me does mean “fake” in some ways. Respect and courtesy are a differnet bag entirely, and you can spot the difference 100 paces away. I get furious at rude people who make no bones about the fact that they don’t give a shit that I am in the same public space as them, that it’s all about them. What a bunch of spoilt brats we are these days.
LOL at Kigen. I guess that is the danger of blogging, isnt it. I do think the self-absorption is a bit of a backlash against having no real public forums where we feel like we make a difference. And blogging by its nature is much more communal. And of course, there is great support in the blogging world because in many respects it’s much easier to deal with each other because people are generally able to be more open hearted online.
But yeah, I agree. I have been thinking the same thing, that I am SICK of banging on about myself on my blog (even though that is definitely the nature of my writing style). But yeah, I am on a bit of a quest to go out and do some investigative reporting, seeing there is little of it in my newspaper, heh
I think a lot of people are ocmfortable with blogging, but “reporting” is a different kettle of fish for them in their heads. They get silenced by the professionalism, the “real” writing, etc etc. When in actual fact I think there are tons of bloggers who are indeed very capable of doing such things.
Interesting topic, Tess! Sorry for vomiting on your comments
Tess 07.01.09 at 2:27 pm
Thanks Molly, Kel and Sue for your comments.
Sue, I logged in while eating my lunch and I nearly choked with laughter when I read your first comment – what a way to go that would have been! Yes, I think we all agree, the difference is in the intent, the terminology and the honesty.
I have to say I LOVE all you guys for commenting and making this such a fantastic discussion.
Elaine 07.02.09 at 6:05 pm
Excellent, thoughtful, challenging post and question, Tess.
I’ve been struggling to write an honest, articulate comment for some time now. And I still don’t have a complete or satisfying (for me) answer to your question.
I don’t think we have to forsake politeness for honesty and vice versa but it’s tricky. I value both politeness, which I define as being respectful, and truthfulness. (I do not equate politeness with compassion and kindness). When communicating in “touchy” situations, I’m learning it’s important to consider the environment (public versus private), motivation (particularly when I’m providing feedback as a preceptor or when a friend ask for an “honest opinion”), and my own emotional state (the less said, the better when I’m angry, impatient or hurt). These considerations help me choose my timing, words and how much I talk versus listen.
I don’t know when dishonesty becomes “active” but I think it becomes “harmful” when someone will be hurt if we don’t tell the truth. At that point, despite our fears of being thought impolite or “not nice”, we need to speak up.
Tess 07.02.09 at 8:19 pm
@Elaine, you’ve certainly succeeded in making an ‘honest and articulate’ comment! You make very fine points about environment and motivation. I wasn’t really familiar with the role of a preceptor, which you mention, although I’d heard the term. Just Googled it and it sounds really interesting and responsible – I can certainly see the need for caution there. Thanks again.
Barbara Anne 07.03.09 at 11:11 pm
Hi Tess!
I love this post!!
Towanda and I are on the same page in these issues. I seem to remember Jesus reacting in a less than polite manner in throwing the moneychangers out of the temple. The church has forgotten its duty to stand up to injustice and not to be polite in the process.