I am rather unnerved by Pope Benedict’s plans to relax restrictions on the Latin (Tridentine) Mass rite. You can read about it here.
I am just old enough to remember the pre-Vatican II mass. As a child I thought it beautiful but incomprehensible. I clearly remember the prevailing view in Catholic teaching, enshrined in part of the Latin rite, that no-one who was not Catholic would be saved, and that we should pray for the conversion of Jews. In other words Jews are merely incomplete Christians.
My late Aunt was a member of the Latin Mass Society, in which she often tried to interest me. I looked into it a few years ago and remember being horrified by its arch conservatism.
But we must remember that Pope Benedict is an arch-conservative and in trying to break down barriers between mainstream Catholicism and Lefevbre’s followers, he risks alienating other faiths and other Christian denominations. Look at the damage he has already done to Catholic interfaith work with Muslims by remarks that may have been taken out of context but were at best ill-advised.
I am not against tradition, and I believe a liturgy of great beauty is vitally important. Beauty in ritual concentrates the mind and heart. Latin has an ancient lineage (although logically the Mass should be said in Aramaic). What makes me nervous is the thought of a Catholic Church beginning to reverse the reforms of Vatican II and in doing so, attracting fundamentalist Christians who will put on the pressure for an even more entrenched Church.
We had a foretaste of this when the Anglican church started to ordain women. Roman Catholic ranks were swelled by defecting Anglican priests and lay people. And this in turn by default has meant even more of an anti-women bias in the Catholic church. (One of the biggest problems I have with my Catholic faith is its position on women clergy. The other is its approach to people who are gay.)
Tradition is important, it should not be just abandoned, but the expression of faith changes.
Ironically (given the subject), when I hear the word “Tradition”, I immediately think of the wonderful song from Fiddler on the Roof. Tevye rests in the tradition of his faith, but he struggles with it as well. At times, tradition gets in the way of his love for his daughters. In many ways the whole of the musical (and I was lucky enough to see Topol in a stage production of Fiddler several years ago) is about this tension between tradition and emerging modernity. Between what is integral and what should be left behind.
The same is true of the Catholic Church. It’s just that I thought we’d won some battles years ago.
{ 7 comments… read them below or add one }
Hi Tess, Oh wow! I know you come from a caring place in what you speak, but i have to say Vatican II just horrifies me, and in fact its one of the reasons i almost turned my back completely on the Catholic church. So it being reversed, if that happens, honestly that offers hope to this soul. I have to admit I dont know about the elements you were focusing on here so i’ll need to look at all that, but i do know this:
Vatican II almost completely did away with the Catholic focus on Mary and the saints, and in fact after Vatican II happened many chuches felt in “good conscience” they should conform to the downplaying there (instead of the intended horrific banishing the council “just” harmfully and seriously downplayed) and so many churches actually smashed their stained glass windows of Mary and the saints, and did away with the holy shrines there, not to speak of the devotional focus. I’m not kidding there. And thats HUGE to me.
And Vatican II seriously wounded the link to Catholicism’s very moving Medieval roots (not that it began there but it came to such a height there, such a wonderful overflow of men and women mystics was then, serene cathedrals, pilgrimages, devotions…the ideals of a period are very important, even if it has a dark side, and ~~every~~ period has their own dark side, even ours). Vatican II did away with so many of our deep and ancient prayers, and most anything smacking of traditiional or mystical. In other words, it killed the church’s very heart, thats what i feel. That is just huge!
It also seriously damaged those with vocations by all but ripping away and certainly drying out the contemplative element there (and ripping it away most everywhere really). When i grew up i had ‘sound of music’ sort of images of religious life, maybe a bit too idealistic, but the contrast of reality was far worse than it would have been pre Vaticam II i’m sure. When i actually explored the post Vatican II result in abbeys it was just horrible, they were so often sterile and mechanical and their nuns so “busy” and public and exposed, no sense of the sacred anymore, no calm and peace, not even a healing beauty was to be found much (you need a certain presence for that, which had been just ruthlessly ripped away). It hit the women, the nuns, even harder than the monks (though it hit them too) , becuase nuns barely had any contemplative orders left now, and that wound is still there, and affecting the lay too as a contemplative way of being is just incredibly trivialized post Vatican II, especially for women. To a contemplative soul, and especially a contemplative female soul, thats a very very serious wound Vatican II left.
Anyway, this was oddly timely, as just last night i had had this sudden urge to look up the Tridentine mass more, and had gathered some links, thinking to incorporate them perhaps later into the prayer links. But i had no idea Pope Benedict was bringing it back. I can be pretty woefully unaware sometimes lol.
With the interfaith issue….I nearly converted to Judaism, and have great respect for the deeper parts of the faith. Though i didnt convert in the end, i studied with a truly wonderful Rabbi and was involved in an Orthodox community for quite some time. It definitely left its mark in my heart, and i still keep Rosh Hodesh and Shabbat. The last thing i’d want to do is see a wall build there, truly. But i dont think caring enough about someone that you pray they might come to know the love of Christ is an insult but rather a mark of care. That is one thing i actually had a hard time with in the Jewish world when i was involved there, the opposite found–there they pray officially only “for the Jewish people”. To me, THAT is what wounds, we should be praying for all of our brothers and sisters in this world that they be blessed, including blessed with a real relationship with Christ and Mary.
I really loved Pope John Paul II’s type of caring interfaith work. I’d love to see that part happen more, not less, with Pope Benedict. But otherwise reversing the harm of Vatican II, well i think thats a very good thing, and not a minute too soon. I hope i havnt offended you here Tess, as that wasnt my intent. I guess this issue is just pretty charged for me.
Hope you have a Blessed Weekend
Paix, Wendy
PS The other thing i’ve slowly noticed over the years, is that the Orthodox of any faith seem to have more in common with each other’s Orthodox-but-different faiths than they do with the non-Orthodox of their own faith. So a deepening of Orthodox Christianity would i think actually create more of a bond with the Orthodox Jewish and Eastern Orthodox etc world, not less. Does that make sense? I thinks its becuase “heart speaks to heart”, “depth calls to depth” and the like. When you deepen into the roots of your faith more, that makes you appreciate depth more where else it is found also….
Tess,
I thoroughly agree with you, and share your concern.
The fact is that the Catholic Church (at least in the US) is already attracting fundamentalists from the Evangelical ranks who see it as a “last bastion” of conservatism. I was interviewed about my conversion for last December’s issue of US Catholic magazine, and the interviewer was surprised when she learned I was a former Evangelical pastor, because it was obvious from our talk that I was not an arch conservative in my views. She told me (and I believe this was in the article as well) that last year in the US, over 150,000 adults converted to Catholicism in the US. Of these, the overwhelming majority were from conservative evangelical churches.
Wow, I totally have to disagree with Wendy’s read on Vatican II. John XXIII should have been canonized by now for his vision. I just spent much of this semester in one of my classes studying the history of Vatican II. The fact is that Vatican II reversed (or attempted to) centuries of a “fortress mentality” within the Church, of “us against the evil modern world.” Read “Gaudium et Spes” to see this.
It isn’t true at all that Vatican II did away with focus on Mary and the saints. It’s still very much alive and well and always has been.
I won’t go on, because I don’t want to get into a debate, but I think Wendy’s read on the effects and history of it is altogether in error. Vatican II was the best thing to happen to the Catholic Church in centuries.
Antony, thank you for this comment. I had supper last night with a friend who, like you, is a convert to Catholicism, and she also expressed general concern at the direction Benedict is taking the Church. I think she is unsure whether she would have converted if she had to make the decision now.
Wendy, of course you haven’t offended me, thank you for speaking honestly about the issues as you see them. There’s a lot to think about and answer in what you’ve said, and I will probably try to address some of these further in blog posts.
What I think I will just pick up on here is your comment about the effects of Vatican II upon contemplative and monastic life. I think – and please, I say this with the greatest respect and affection – that yes you probably are a bit idealistic about monastic life pre VII. A huge amount of psychological harm was done behind those closed convent doors.
An interesting autobiography to read that sets out some of these issues is Karen Armstrong’s “Through the Narrow Gate”. She writes a balanced account of her life as a nun and the reasons she eventually left. She does not diminish the beauty of the life, but nor does she shrink from the wrong done.
And I think it’s incorrect that contemplative life is lessened. Probably what’s happening is that people are questioning more, but in my experience there is a huge hunger for a contemplative spirituality and there are many communities and individuals answering that hunger.
Hmmm, two parts…
To Antony, looking at most churches today, and most of them pre Vatican II, there is just no possible way for me to ignore the very real diminishing of Mary and the saints in so many of them, or the politizing of things at the expense of the ~truly~ contemplative and mystical. I’m not talking about the outward stuff, there is not the same ~feeling~ behind things, and that’s very critical i feel. Its dry, that’s the only way to describe the feeling for me. I think your draw though to desert spirituality is perhaps why you dont notice it so much, as that does still get its nod. But the softer more “watery” feminine sort of contemplation (this is hard to describe, but some of the female medieval mystics show it), well forget it, it was buthchered and left for slaughter by Vatican II, it really was. Thats definitely not something i can ignore. I’m do really appreciate that you have found something healing from it, but others truly were harmed. I do enjoy your blog, and know that you try to give things very real thought and measure.
To Tess, I agree its easy to idealize the past, i know there was a dark side, just like we have our own dark side now (which many try and ignore), but i still think if you compare things pre and post vatican II there is a distinct differnce (it was a danger slowly growing before Vatican II, and Vatican II just amped it up and “cinched” it); even the actual proportion of contemplative centered abbeys for women (notably, men’s monasterys were not hit as hard) just plummeted, they mostly became more outward/”doing something in the world” focused for the nuns, like an actual truly contemplative life for women just wasnt a real option anymore, even for the religious. That REALLY means something to me.
But Tess i do really appreciate the compassion you hold here, it comes through so strongly that that is where you are coming from, a real concern that people of other faiths will not be hurt, and that means so much. Its a concern i share, though i may see a different means to that.
Anyway, looking back over this i kind of regret the original responding now since i wasnt looking to debate on your blog, so im sorry about that. I guess its just that this stuff touches so close to home for me its hard for me not to respond. I hope you are having a blessed and peaceful weekend…
Paix, Wendy
Thanks Wendy for this further response, and I do sort of understand how you feel about this stuff. I just can’t agree with your reading of things. I have seen first hand a lot of the difficulty people have had in adapting to different elements of VII, so I am not unsympathetic. We still are adapting. But please don’t apologise for responding: I think debate is essential in understanding each other, and I’m sure Antony would agree. In fact, I think one of the most valuable elements of VII was the fact that people had to question and debate.
And I am having a blessed and peaceful weekend thank you. It is 8.30 in the morning as I write this. I have a couple of croissants warming in the oven that are beginning to give off a gorgeous smell. I will be having them with black cherry preserve and some strong coffee. A glorious Sunday morning treat!